Torture and a fitting successor to Bush

[joshwriting]

Along the way, I have thought from time to time that a Giuliani presidency might be tenable. Yeah, I don't care for lots of things he has said, but "compared to Bush, he's a liberal" is how the mantra has gone.

He has helped to clarify for me exactly who he is.

Mr. Giuliani said on Wednesday night at a forum in Davenport, Iowa, that he favored “aggressive questioning” of terrorism suspects and using “means that are a little tougher” with terrorists but that the United States should not torture people. On the question of whether waterboarding is torture, however, Mr. Giuliani said he was unsure.

“It depends on how it’s done,” he said, adding that he was unsure whether descriptions of the practice by the “liberal media” were accurate. “It depends on the circumstances. It depends on who does it.”

This is the crux of the matter, from a Bush administration perspective. "The United States does not torture." Therefore, if we waterboard, it is not torturing. If "they" waterboard our people, THEN it is torture!

This is a process that causes the victim to have the sensation of drowning, and it includes the potential for triggering a heart attack. How is there any doubt? The only candidate for President who has been a prisoner of war, McCain, says “All I can say is that it was used in the Spanish Inquisition, it was used in Pol Pot’s genocide in Cambodia, and there are reports that it is being used against Buddhist monks today.” Why do I think his opinion might have more weight than Giuliani's?

Giuliani also dismissed claims that sleep deprivation is or can be torture, noting that "on that theory, I’m getting tortured running for president of the United States. That’s plain silly. That’s silly."

I honestly believe that in this sort of instance, the candidate should have the experience before shooting his fool mouth off.

Comments

[robertsloan2.livejournal.com]

No kidding.

Chills up my spine.

I didn't think they could come up with a candidate as nasty as Bush. But they picked one that I knew. I was in a homeless shelter while Giuliani was mayor of NYC. I was in the shelter the particular Christmas that he decided to have every homeless person in the city arrested if they did not get indoors in the shelters -- and the NYC shelters are dangerous places, lot of crack addicts, people die in them or wind up getting framed by some addict hiding their stash in your stuff, it's a risk I would not have been willing to take. I was in a disabled shelter nowhere near the city. But he decided they should all be arrested if they don't get into the shelters.

And then got on television an hour or so later putting one dollar into the Salvation Army bell-ringer's pot to help the homeless, beaming and turning that into a photo op, with the slant that he cares so much about the homeless.

One dollar to one of the organizations that run the shelters that people would sometimes rather risk arrest than have to go into. In a city where getting an apartment takes more than a person with a minimum wage job can earn.

That's what I remember about Giuliani. His view on torture doesn't surprise me at all. "I know there's problems with the shelters, but we have to get these people off the streets."

[dlevey.livejournal.com]

I seem to recall seeing somewhere the suggestion that any questioning technique used by the military should be usable by congress on military spokespeople coming to congress to testify. Or something like that.

[camlina.livejournal.com]

This sort of thing is why I have never been a fan of Giuliani's.

If we have to have a Republican, I'd prefer to have Romney, I think. But none of them thrill me.

I'm not thrilled with any of the Democratic candidates, but I like at least two of them better than any of the Republicans.