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Women and intellectual debates
Oct. 13th, 2006 06:55 pmFrom ![[livejournal.com profile]](https://www.dreamwidth.org/img/external/lj-userinfo.gif)
camlina:
I attend Mount Holyoke college - a small, relatively selective all-girls private liberal arts college. This semester, however, in addition to my Mount Holyoke classes, I'm taking a political seminar at Amherst college - a very selective co-ed private liberal arts college. I've noticed some things about gender differences, and I'm curious to see what all of your reactions are.
To begin with, I haven't noticed a lot of the gender roles that many people claim exist. Proportionately (only about 1/4 of the 40 students are female), the women participate in class approximately as much as the men. The way they phrase their comments is not particularly different either - they are not particularly more hesitant or self-deprecating.
Outside of class proper, though, I've certainly noticed differences. At break, or right before the class, the guys will sometimes start discussing things from the reading or the class discussions, or even just political debates in general. Not all of the guys, by any means, nor all of the time. But generally there will be at least a few guys engaged in some sort of intellectual debate at any given moment of unstructured time in the class (and it is not just the same few guys - it varies). But I almost never see any girls engaged in these debates. Certainly not between several girls, and only rarely and peripherally will a girl ever be part of a debate with the guys. Occasionally a girl will participate for a few quick comments and then drop out of the conversation and move elsewhere. Mostly, there is not even that. The girls talk about what they did last weekend, what sport they play, when they get to see their boyfriend, how much work they have for their classes, what great shows they've been to see. Sure, the guys talk about these things too - but they *also* talk about things with a little more weight behind them.
Last class, for example, during break an Amherst girl mentioned Kinky Friedman - a joke gubernatorial candidate in Texas that's apparently doing surprisingly well. About 6 of us joined in the muttering about him, and the conversation splintered off - most into subjects less political but equally shallow as that of Kinky Friedman. But one guy and I started talking about other political candidates up for election this November. We'd been talking for about 5 minutes perhaps when a girl from Smith College (another nearby all-girls selective private liberal arts college) whom I usually chat with came back from the bathroom or somewhere. She poked me and said something to the effect of "Geez, why would you get into such a serious discussion during break?!" This had the effect of more or less ending my political discussion with the guy - I then got to listen to the Smith girl talk about her crew team with a guy from Amherst's crew team.
Thinking about it, it seems to me to reflect many of my other experiences. For instance, one thing that I've noticed and missed at my school, Mount Holyoke, is the lack of much intellectual/academic discussion outside of the classroom, other than requests for help. That would fit into the theory that girls - whether for biological or social reasons (or some combination) - don't engage in that sort of debate for pleasure nearly so much as guys. Though there are, of course, exceptions - I know a number of girls who do engage in academic debate for pleasure, including myself.
What are your thoughts?
camlina:I attend Mount Holyoke college - a small, relatively selective all-girls private liberal arts college. This semester, however, in addition to my Mount Holyoke classes, I'm taking a political seminar at Amherst college - a very selective co-ed private liberal arts college. I've noticed some things about gender differences, and I'm curious to see what all of your reactions are.
To begin with, I haven't noticed a lot of the gender roles that many people claim exist. Proportionately (only about 1/4 of the 40 students are female), the women participate in class approximately as much as the men. The way they phrase their comments is not particularly different either - they are not particularly more hesitant or self-deprecating.
Outside of class proper, though, I've certainly noticed differences. At break, or right before the class, the guys will sometimes start discussing things from the reading or the class discussions, or even just political debates in general. Not all of the guys, by any means, nor all of the time. But generally there will be at least a few guys engaged in some sort of intellectual debate at any given moment of unstructured time in the class (and it is not just the same few guys - it varies). But I almost never see any girls engaged in these debates. Certainly not between several girls, and only rarely and peripherally will a girl ever be part of a debate with the guys. Occasionally a girl will participate for a few quick comments and then drop out of the conversation and move elsewhere. Mostly, there is not even that. The girls talk about what they did last weekend, what sport they play, when they get to see their boyfriend, how much work they have for their classes, what great shows they've been to see. Sure, the guys talk about these things too - but they *also* talk about things with a little more weight behind them.
Last class, for example, during break an Amherst girl mentioned Kinky Friedman - a joke gubernatorial candidate in Texas that's apparently doing surprisingly well. About 6 of us joined in the muttering about him, and the conversation splintered off - most into subjects less political but equally shallow as that of Kinky Friedman. But one guy and I started talking about other political candidates up for election this November. We'd been talking for about 5 minutes perhaps when a girl from Smith College (another nearby all-girls selective private liberal arts college) whom I usually chat with came back from the bathroom or somewhere. She poked me and said something to the effect of "Geez, why would you get into such a serious discussion during break?!" This had the effect of more or less ending my political discussion with the guy - I then got to listen to the Smith girl talk about her crew team with a guy from Amherst's crew team.
Thinking about it, it seems to me to reflect many of my other experiences. For instance, one thing that I've noticed and missed at my school, Mount Holyoke, is the lack of much intellectual/academic discussion outside of the classroom, other than requests for help. That would fit into the theory that girls - whether for biological or social reasons (or some combination) - don't engage in that sort of debate for pleasure nearly so much as guys. Though there are, of course, exceptions - I know a number of girls who do engage in academic debate for pleasure, including myself.
What are your thoughts?
